Friday, October 30, 2009

Question of the Week (10/30/09)

In Chapter 10, several things happen that are ironic and/or foreshadowing. Label each one of these using evidence from the text and explain:
• The only way Amir can survive the long ride in the fume-filled tank is by remembering flying kites with Hassan.
• Baba gathers up the dirt of his homeland and places it next to his heart.
• Kamal’s father commits suicide after Kamal dies from breathing the fumes of the tank.
• Kamal, one of Hassan’s rapists, has been raped himself and hasn’t spoken since.

Post your response by Sunday 11/1 and don't forget to respond to a classmate's response. Happy Halloween!

30 comments:

Katie Callahan said...

Amir’s survival by thinking about flying kites with Hassan is ironic. Amir’s best and worst memories include kite flying and running, but the most recent and freshest moment is of Hassan being raped. It is ironic that Amir would think of kite flying as a happy thought to help him survive when kite flying and the events that followed took away his best friend and almost brother, Hassan.

I think that Baba gathering dirt from his homeland and putting it close to his heart is foreshadowing. I think that this might mean that Baba never comes back to Afghanistan so this is like his final goodbye.

I think that Kamal’s father committing suicide after Kamal dies from the fumes is definitely charma, but could also be foreshadowing. I think that there could be a parallel between Kamal and his father and Amir and Baba.

Kamal being raped and not speaking again is ironic because he was one of Hassan’s rapists. Kamal was obviously oblivious to the effect on a person after being raped at the time that he raped Hassan. Now, he is experiencing what Hassan experienced years ago.

Michaela Helble said...

I think that Amir surviving the long ride only by thinking about Hassan is irony. Amir says that "not a word passed between us, not because we had nothing to say, but because we don't have to say anything-that's how it is between people who are each other's first memories, people who have fed from the same breast." (122). What this is basically saying is that Hassan is a fundamental part of Amir. Amir, after Hassan leaves, has been trying to push the part of him that's Hassan away because he's ashamed of his past. But Amir can't ever really push Hassan away, so it's ironic that Hassan, who's been haunting Amir's thoughts and putting shadows over his happiness comes in to save Amir in one of his worst moments in life.

Baba gathering up the dirt of his homeland is foreshadowing. I really agree with what Katie had to say about this- that this gesture is like showing that Baba will never come back to Afghanistan. I think that this is the perfect explanation for why he does this. Basically, when Baba gets to America, all he can do is "mourn his [memories]" (129) of Afghanistan, which adds to the fact that he will probably not go back to Afghanistan.

I think that Kamal's father commiting suicide after Kamal dies is more like foreshadowing than irony. Kamal's father kills himself because the death of his son was something he could not cope with. Death seemed like the only option for him. This might be that Amir dies and Baba cannot live without him. However, I think that's pretty unlikely and it's much more likely that there is something in Amir's life the he cannot live without and then commits suicide. If there is something like this, it probably has to do with Hassan, because Amir often thinks about "the blackness of the grief [he] had brought onto everyone" (107) when he didn't intervene when Hassan was being raped.

Kamal being raped is definitely ironic, because he assisted in the rape of Hassan. Kamal was responsible for "[holding] him down." (75). Hassan,after the rape, is silent. He "used to sing..old Hazara songs." (80) but after he's raped barely says anything. Kamal after being raped is also silent. It's ironic that the raper got raped.

Alex Krass said...

I think that Amir thinking about Hassan and kite flying is ironic. This is ironic because at the same time Hassan is Amir's happiest memory, but also his worst memory. The way he keeps alive in the truck is thinking about flying the kites and winning the tournament with Hassa. But right after the happiest memory of his life, comes the worst memory of his life, Hassan getting raped. It is ironic how his happiest memory that he thinks about, leads to his worst memory.

I agree with what both Katie Michaela have said about BaBa gathering the dirt before they left. It is strong foreshadowing that he takes teh dirt with him because it seems that we might never come back to his homeland. He takes the dirt thinking that he will never come back and he should take what he can to remember his home town. He wants to remember his home town because he might never be back there again

Kamal's fathering dying deffinetly seems like foreshadowing. He killed himself after his son Kamal died, it is possible that later a father or son will kill himself, or attempt to, after their father/son died. Wether it is betrween BaBa or someone else I am not sure, but I think that there will deffinetly be some parallel there.

Kamal getting raped is clearly irony. He helped Assef when he raped Hassan and at that point he was technically the raper. Now it has cmoe back to haunt him and he has become the one who is getting raped. As MIchaela mentioned Hassan was much more silent after he was raped, and the same thing happend with Kamal, he was silent after he was raped. This was deffinetly irony.

Jeff said...

For the first one, where Amir can only be happy if he thinks about flying kites is really important. His memories of Hassan are still good, even though there is one that is horrible. I think that in the future, Amir will realize that his happy memories are more important than his one negative memory. Also, after flying the kites with Hassan is when Hassan as raped. So he is always going to have that in the back of his mind.

When Baba grabs some dirt from his homeland, I think that shows that he will never return to his homeland again in the future. I think that it is an actual foreshadowing of what is going to happen. He might never go back and he wants to remember what he built up from nothing. Including his huge home, and his reputation in Afghanistan.

When Kamal's father commits suicide after Kamal dies isn't foreshadowing, going against what Michaela said. I believe that is more of what Katie said, which is karma. I think that both of them dying gets back at what Kamal did to Hassan. And because it is in front of Amir, I think that is makes him feel some what relieved.

The last one is the most obvious. He gets raped and he helped rape Hassan. I think that this might be foreshadowing that everyone who helped rape Hassan will die. It will be a combination of karma and foreshadowing. There will also be an element of revenge.

Alice.Rottersman said...

Like and Katie Michaela said,Hassan surviving the car ride with his memory of Hassan is ironic. Hassan is the very thing he's been trying to escape from all these years, "I wanted that, to move on, to forget, to start with a clean slate. I wanted to be able to breathe again" (105). So, if Amir is deliberately trying to remember Hassan to survive air he can't breathe in, etc, it's ironic.

Although I agree with Katie about Baba keeping dirt being foreshadowing, just to spice things up a bit, I'll say it's irony, too. "'Baba loved the idea of America...help the Palestinians, then!'" (125-126), Baba seems to be very pro-American and dissapproving of Afghan politics. So that fact that he misses it so much (enough to carry around dirt) is sort of ironic, I guess.

Kamal's father commiting suicide after Kamals death is foreshadowing. I think we will find out Hassan died, and that Ali commited suicide because of it. After all, Ali really loved Hassan, "He had found his joy, his antidote, the moment Sanaubar had given birth to Hassan" (10).

I completely agree with Michaela and Katie again; Kamal being raped is irony. However, it could also be foreshadowing. It shows that carma is active in the book, so perhaps it's showing Amir will get what's coming. As in he will need help and a bystander will...bystand.

lynda said...

I think that it is ironic that Amir only survives the fuel fumed ride by thinking about Hassan because there used to be days that Amir couldn't bear to think about Hassan because of what Hassan had endured from Assef and the others, and wanted NOT to think about Hassan and so, framed him of crime, JUST to get him out of his head

It is foreshadowing when Baba places the dirt next to his heart because Baba is about to leave his country to go to America

Kamal's father killing himself after Kamal is foreshadowing, because I don't really know why it would be karma. Like Alice said, we later learn that Ali commited suicide when Hassan died.

and it is totally ironic that Kamal gets raped by some other guys, considering he had been a bystander in the rape of Hassan. He learned what it was like to be violated, and be treated like dirt. I think he doesn't speak because he doesn't want to talk about how horrible it was, just like how Amir didn't want to talk to Hassan about what happened in the alley that day, and Hassan didn't talk about it either, and things became awkward and silent between them.

lynda said...

I agree with Alice that Baba kissing the Afgani soil is ironic, because even though Baba is a Sunni muslim, he doesn't follow the Afgani customs, but is more Americanized instead. He drinks, eats pork, etc. That's why its a little ironic that he kisses the soil of his homeland when he's about to embark on a journey to the United States.

Hayley said...

I think that it's ironic that that the only way Amir can survive the long ride in the fume-filled tank is by remembering flying kites with Hassan. It's symbolic because though he got rid of Hassan physically, and is finally made an escape from him, the only way he can make the escape is by thinking of him.

It is not exactly ironic that Baba gathers up the dirt of his homeland and places it next to his heart, because he IS leaving his homeland after all. It does foreshadow a little, suggesting that Baba will never return to his beloved homeland

Another example on non-irony is when Kamal’s father commits suicide after Kamal dies from breathing the fumes of the tank. It's terribly sad that this man's world is falling apart. He has to leave, and his son is raped, then dies. Perhaps he doesn't die from just the fumes. Perhaps is was psychological too.

It is a tad ironic that Kamal, one of Hassan’s rapists, has been raped himself and hasn’t spoken since. He is like Hassan in that the shock keeps him silent. The poor boy's world must have been rocked. I imagine that he was on top of his little world at home, since he ran with Assef and those boys. Then the soldiers come in and give him the same treatment he participated in years ago.

Kelsey said...

As almost everyone has said, I think that it is ironic how the only way Amir can survive the ride in the oil tank is by thinking about his old memories with Hassan. After all of the trouble Amir went to to make sure that Ali and Hassan left, and how much he wants to forget about Hassan (when Amir tries to get rid of the book Ali and Hassan gave him for his birthday: "I ended up tossing the book on the heap of gifts in the corner of my room. But my eyes kept going back to it, so I buried it at the bottom." 104), it is kind of ironic that in order to survive he remembers how much fun he used to have with Hassan.

I agree that when Baba gathers up the soil and puts it in his chest pocket is a gesture of foreshadowing. Also as everyone else said, I think that it shows that he may never return to his homeland, and the little bit of soil will be the only thing he has left from it.

I think that Kamal's father committing suicide after Kamal dies is definitely foreshadowing. I think it is showing the deep love between a father and his son, much like that of Ali and Hassan. I don't think that it is foreshadowing to something that will happen between Amir and Baba, because they don't have as strong bond/love as Hassan and Ali do.

I think that the fact that Kamal had been raped himself and hasn't spoken since, is both irony and foreshadowing. It's ironic because Kamal was an instrumental piece to Assef raping Hassan, because he was the one that held him down on the ground: "Hassan lay with his chest pinned to the ground,. Kamal and Wali each gripped an arm, twisted and bent at the elbow..." (75). It's ironic that after putting someone else through so much pain, he too had to experience the same thing. I think that this is also foreshadowing, because since Kamal was raped, he hasn't spoken since. I think that this might be foreshadowing that maybe Hassan won't speak again, or go back to his usual happy self, after he was raped.

Kelsey said...

I agree with Jeff that when Baba reaches for the dirt to put in his pocket, it is to help him remember how much he accomplished in Afghanistan, and that he was able to build a great reputation and life for himself, from basically nothing.

Jennie said...

The fact that Amir needs to think of happy times spent with Hassan in order to survive the terrible ride in the tank is very ironic. If Amir had not reacted to seeing Hassan getting raped like he had (by not doing ANYTHING) then he might not be in the possition he's in. True, they still would probably have wanted to get out of the dangers of Afghanistans, but perhaps Amir would have been with Hassan, suffering through the hard times with his friend (or friend-brother-figure).

Baba's gathering up of the dirt of his homeland, and holding it to his heart serves as foreshadowing. We know that Amir ends up in the U.S. because of the first chapter, before the flashback. He goes for a "walk along Spreckels Lake on the northern edge of Golden Gate Park"(1). I think that Baba's actions hint that both Amir and Baba himself are leaving Afghanistan, and from what we know, we can expect them to go to America.

I think the most ironic thing from chapter 10 is that Kamal has been raped. He aided in Assef's raping of Hassan. He didn't want to rape him himself, but he did nothing to stop Assef. He even HELPED Assef. His and his gang's impact on Hassan was immense, but Hassan handled this trauma quite well. He, like Kamal, was silent for a long time, but seemed to recover at least a little. Kamal, on the other hand, has not handled the trauma well. "He had whithered--there was simply no other word for it"(120). I think Kamal is an example of the numerous sayings such as "what goes around comes around." It did for him.

Kamal's father killing himself after Kamal's death serves as foreshadowing. There are a lot of important father-son relationships in The Kite Runner (Baba and Amir, Ali and Hassan, Kamal's father and Kamal). This is a very sad and traumatic ending for one of the pairs.

Jennie said...

SO. I am very confused. In Lynda's post, she agrees with what Alice says about Kamal's dad committing suicide being foreshadowing because we later learn that Ali commits suicide because of Hassan's death. But I just checked back and read Alice's post, and she says she believes this might happen, but she doesn't say it DOES happen. THANK GOODNESS! I WAS SO SAD. If it turns out that Ali does commit suicide over Hassan's death, then Kamal's father's suicide would indeed serve as foreshadowing.

Ella Kaplan said...

I think when Baba tells Amir to think of something that makes him happy, I think it was ironic for Amir to choose the time where him and Hassan were flying kites because it should remind him of what happened to Hassan and how he blames himself of what happened he let happen. “I buried my face in the warmth of his chest and wept. Baba held me close to him, rocking me back and forth. In his arms, I forgot what I had done” (79).

I think that when Baba gathers the dirt of his homeland and places it near his heart is foreshadowing. Even though he is so excited to America, Afghanistan is where he grew up, where he lived and where his family was. “He missed the people milling in and out of his house, missed walking down the bustling aisles of Shor Bazaar and greeting people who knew him and his father, knew his grandfather, people who shared ancestors with him, whose pasts intertwined with his.” (129)

I think that we don’t really know if Kamal’s father’s suicide is foreshadowing since we don’t know what’s going to happen to the other characters and the relationships between the fathers and sons (Amir and Baba, Ali and Hassan, ect) and if over one’s death is the other going to die. I don’t think that Kamal’s father has bad Karma because Kamal’s father had nothing to do with Hassan’s rape and Kamal did die before his father so unless there is an afterworld, Kamal will never know what his father did to himself over his death.

I think Kamal being raped is definitely ironic since he helped Hassan get raped by Assef (see p. 75). I agree with Kelsey that it is also a little bit foreshadowing since both Kamal and Hassan’s personalities and appearances dramatically change after they both have been raped. After Hassan has been raped, he didn’t appear as much in Amir’s life and he was very distant “For a week, I barely saw Hassan…. That, and a breakfast I hardly finished anymore.” (80).

Bryce said...

It is important in the book that when Amir is asked to think of a good memory he chooses to think about flying kites with Hassan. This has to do with the book title, The Kite Runner because everything that happened to Hassan effects Amir. They are basically brothers and when Hassan gets raped forever effects Amir. Amir loved Hassan and spending time flying kites with him made him happy. They were his good memories.

I think that it is important that Baba brings dirt from his homeland and places it next to his heart because Baba loved his homeland. Page 124 explains how Baba now has nothing. He is left with just his son and suitcases and the dirt of his homeland. The homeland is his memory as flying kites is Amir's.

I agree with Jennie that if Ali does commit suicide that this would be major foreshadowing, but I also think that would be really sad. If someone said that because they have read it and they know what happens then that is kind of ruining the book for people who haven't read it. But I do agree that this is foreshadowing and gets the reader thinking that this could happen again.

Sonya said...

It is ironic that the only way Amir can survive the fume-filled ride in the tank is by thinking of flying kites with Hassan. Baba has told him to "think of something good. something happy" (122) and this is the memory that comes to Amir's mind. As Amir says, the memory is "a a perfectly encapsulated morsel of a good past, a brushstroke of color on the gray, barren canvas that our lives had become." Before this, Amir has done as best he can to not think of Hassan at all, and yet his favorite memories are of his times with Hassan flying kites. However, Hassan and that one day of the kite fight are also the things that now make Amir extremely unhappy.

As most people have said, Baba gathering up dirt is foreshadowing for the fact that he will probably never get to go back to Afghanistan, his beloved homeland. Baba probably thinks this at the time, and takes the dirt so that he at least has a piece of Afghanistan to take with him.

As a few people have said, there are many father son pairs in this book, and Kamal's father's suicide after Kamal's death seems like it may be foreshadowing for the fact that another son may die causing his father to commit suicide. This could be Amir and Baba, or Hassan and Ali. As Michaela mentioned, this could also be foreshadowing for a character losing something they don't think they can live without and then committing suicide. Michaela thought that this might happen to Amir, but it doesn't seem to me like Amir is going to die since he narrates the story and because the whole thing is a flashback from the first chapter.

Kamal being raped and then being silent after is definitely ironic. He helped Assef to rape Hassan, who afterwards was a different person; a lot quieter. As Amir says, "For a week, I barely saw Hassan" (80). Now Kamal is silent; and also a completely changed person. It's sort of as if he got what was coming to him; what goes around comes around.

Nathaniel brown said...

It is definitely ironic that Amir can only stand the fumes in the truck by thinking of flying kites with Hassan. Amir has spent the previous few months trying to distance himself from Hassan and forget what he did. For example, he asked baba if they can get new servants, and then blackmailed Hassan and Ali into leaving. But Amir cannot forget, and the fact that he thinks of Hassan to occupy his mind in the truck shows he will never Hassan.
When Baba gathers Afghan dirt inside his snuff box it definitely foreshadows that he or Amir will return to Afghanistan, or at least that they will never forget it. I think this foreshadows Amir's future than Baba's. Amir will probably try to forget everything about Afghanistan, but in the end he will go back, just as Baba would have liked to have done.
I think that Kamal's fathers suicide definitely foreshadows suicide or attempted suicide in the future. Kamal's rape and subsequent silence is, like Sonya said, ironic. He helped Assef rape Hassan, and so he himself was raped. I also think it foreshadows that Assef will get what he deserves. I think that Hassan will probably meet and fight Assef again, and Assef will lose.

Erin Donohue said...

Amir is able to survive the long ride in the fume-filled tank by remembering how he once flew kites with Hassan. Everyone is completely miserable, yet Baba tells Amir to think of something that is good or happy, from the past or present. His mind wanders back to a beautiful to a day, perhaps months earlier, spent with Hassan in Paghman, where he remarks (though to no one in particular) that, “Not a word passes through us, not because we have nothing to say, but because we don’t have to say anything – that’s how it is between people who are each other’s first memories, people who have fed from the same breast…” (pg 122) and continues to end his thought of this memory on page 123, “I only knew the memory lived in me, a perfectly encapsulated morsel of good past…” Amir was a better person and a happier person when his life was perfect: there was nothing to worry about or anything to hide from others, and it was before he realized how drastically his life was bound to change.


Baba gathers dirt from his homeland and places it next to his heart to show the significance that his homeland has in his life. As Jeff mentioned, his homeland was where he was able to demonstrate his success: he was an important figure socially and was well respected. He worked hard to get to that point or status in his life, and I think that he didn’t want to let that part of his life go entirely. On page 121, “He kissed the dirt”, then placed the box in his pocket next to heart. He treats this dirt as if it is someone he loves.

Kamal’s father commits suicide after Kamal dies from breathing the fumes in a more violent way than what Amir ever thought existed. He is not comfortable with facing this violent death – maybe he’s not comfortable with seeing what his country will soon become and what his future life brings him: “I’ll never forget the echo of that blast. Or the flash of light and the spray of red…” (pg 124). His death has happened so fast, just like Amir’s life had over the course of several days.

Kamal, who was one of Hassan’s rapists, hasn’t spoken since he himself had been raped too. Kamal is a reminder to Amir about what he saw Hassan become: “He had withered -- there was simply no other word for it. His eyes gave me a hollow look and no recognition at all registered in them. His shoulders hunched and his cheeks sagged like they were too tired to cling to the bone beneath” (pg 120). Possibly he has reached such a state because he realized what he had done to Hassan: he had been the victim of a violent sexual advancement, and in being forced into a situation like that, Amir sees that Kamal’s life had changed entirely. Amir faces situations like this one after Hassan and his father leaves. These are constant reminders of what he should never forget from his past, regardless of the present.

Robin Smith said...

Amir beeing able to survive the journey in the fuel tank only by thinking about Hassan and kite flying is ironic. Amir has done some very terrible things to Hassan, yet still he loves him more than anything else and the best memories of his life are with Hassan, and he still feels a very strong connection between them, "Not a word passes between us, not because we have nothing to say, but because we dont have to say anything--that's how it is between people who are eachothers first memories, people who have fed from the same breast."(122).

I think that Baba gathering dirt from his homeland and taking it with him is foreshadowing. I think that it shows that Afgahnastan is the only place that Baba will ever really love, it is his homeland and he will never forget it. We find out later that Baba cannot really adjust to life in America, and I think that leaving Afgahnastan really hurt him.

I think that Kamals father commiting suicide after his son is killed from the fumes of the tank might be foreshadowing, and I agree with Katie that there might be a paralell between Amir and Baba later to come in the story.

I think that Kamal being raped and not being able to talk after is very ironic. He did a very terrible thing when he assualted Hassan, and now he knows what it is like to have to live with that. I agree with Erin that maybe the rape has had such a effect on Kamal because he now knows what a terrible thing he put Hassan through, and is probably feeling guilty that he did such a thing.

Sam said...

The memory that Amir plays in his head is ironic. He is thinking about flying kites, the best of times; however, this is overshadowed by the worst of times, the final tournament. He is using the experience to remove his focus from the horrible conditions of the fuel tank. He is using the overshadowing memory to cover up the unfortunate present, by putting himself in a place as bad, if not worse.

As Jeff said, I also think that Baba collects the dirt for his memory. It foreshadows that he will never return to this land, and so he wants to grab a sample of what is still left for him.

The suicide of Kamal's father seems ironic to me. It's purely understandable, especially in that situation, but I still find it ironic that Kamal's father suddenly shoots himself when he realizes that his son is dead. He no longer has a reason to live, and without a thought chooses to take his own life.

It is extremely ironic (not in a humorous way) that Kamal has been raped. First being an offender, by helping Assef rape Hassan, he ends up being raped himself. Kamal learns the true life changing effects a rape can have on someone, shown by his silence.

Leah said...

1) Like my classmates, I think the fact that "the only way Amir can survive the long ride in the fume-filled tank is by remembering flying kites with Hassan" is ironic. Amir's guilt surrounding Hassan has been suffocating him, and he's done everything in his power to shut of contact with and thoughts of Hassan. Now he is literally suffocating on stagnant fumes, and he finds refuge in thinking of the very thing that has caused him so much inner torture; Hassan.

2) As for the second point, I see a little of both irony and forshadowing. On page 121, Baba "emptied the [snuff]box and picked up a handful of dirt from the middle of the unpaved road. He kissed the dirt. Poured it into the box. Stowed the box in his breast pocket, next to his heart." This could be interpreted as foreshadowing, as Katie and others viewed it; this is Baba's final goodbye to his home. To me, it seems almost as if he carries the ashes of a friend next to his heart. As for the irony angle, I think Lynda states it most eloquently: "Baba kissing the Afgani soil is ironic, because even though Baba is a Sunni muslim, he doesn't follow the Afgani customs, but is more Americanized instead. He drinks, eats pork, etc. That's why its a little ironic that he kisses the soil of his homeland when he's about to embark on a journey to the United States."

3) I think it may be foreshadowing that Kamal's father kills himself after the death of his son. However, I believe it may be a psychological death. The escape from Afghanistan literally killed one father, and I think it may emotionally kill another father; I think a part of Amir's father will die as he leaves his home.

4) As for the last part of this question, I agree with most of my peers that Kamal's rape (after being involved in raping Hassan) is ironic. Kamal's father tells Baba about Kamal, whose "shoulders hunched" and "cheeks sagged like they were too tired to cling to the bone beneath" (120). Kamal's father says, "Should have never let him go alone... always so handsome, you know... four of them... tried to fight... God... took him... bleeding down there... his pants... doesn't talk anymore... just stares..." (120). After Hassan was raped, "he'd lost weight and gray circles had formed under his puffed-up eyes" (86). He had grown silent, just as Kamal did. It is ironic that someone who assisted in rape was raped. I disagree with Nathaniel's idea that Kamal's rape may be foreshadowing what will happen to Assef. Maybe Assef will turn up again and brought to justice (very "the power of one"-esque), but I don't think Hassan will do it. Hassan is not one for revenge or hatred.

Kiana said...

I agree with Alex. I think that it’s ironic that Amir’s happiest memory in the tank is flying kites with Hassan, because it is also his worst memory. When Hassan said he had stolen Amir’s watch and money Amir was sure, “Baba would dismiss them, there would be some pain, but life would move on. I wanted that, to move on, to forget, to start with a clean slate. I wanted to be able to breathe again.” (105) He wanted to forget all about what happened with Hassan and he even felt suffocated by it, but now when the air is thick in the tank, he feels suffocated again, “I wanted to reach out with my hands, crush the air into tiny pieces, stuff them down my windpipe.” Baba tells him to “think of something good”, and he thinks about flying kites with Hassan. (122)

I agree with everyone else who said Baba gathering dirt was foreshadowing he wasn’t going to come back to Afghanistan. I think when Baba picked up the dirt he was taking his last memory of Afghanistan and saying goodbye forever.

I agree with Michaela. I think that Kamal’s father killing himself is foreshadowing another event with death later in the book. I also don’t think it is Amir and Baba because the story is told through Amir, but I think it might be between Hassan and Ali, or Hassan and Amir.

Kamal getting raped is definitely ironic as many have said. He helped rape Hassan and now he is the one being raped. Kamal helped hold Hassan down, he “gripped an arm, twisted and bent at the elbow so that Hassan’s hands were pressed to his back”. (75) It is him who is later raped and experiences what he helped do to Hassan.

Emily Lohr said...

Similar to previous responses, Amir's thoughts about kite flying with Hassan during the long ride in the fume-filled tank is ironic because there once was a time when Amir didn't want to think about Hassan and that day in the alley. What was supposed to be one of the most screwed up days in Amir's life was brought back to him in the form of happy thoughts to keep him alive in a sticky situation.

I agree with Jeff as well for this one. Baba's dirt gathering is foreshadowing because it shows he may never go back, but at the same time it also will allow him to remember his reputation and huge home in Afghanistan.

I get the sense that family is very important in the middle east and Kamal's father committing suicide after his son dies seems to be the right way to go. I guess it must be foreshadowing for some other parent-child relationship in the story.

I wouldn't exactly call Kamal one of Hassan's rapists. He was there, holding him down, he didn't actually rape him and the two "helpers" were a little bit uncomfortable about the whole thing. But it's ironic that he got raped because he was part of the raping of Hassan, so he really got a taste of his own medicine. It would've been better if it was Assef, but as long as one of them got some form of punishment, I'm happy. This scenario was a little different from Hassan's in that it seems Kamal hasn't spoken since he got raped and he actually had hunched shoulders and sagged cheeks (120). Hassan was upset for a while, but started to be normal again until Amir himself couldn't handle it and had to make them leave.

tylertorh said...

There is some clear irony in the fact that the only happiness that Amir can obtain comes from thinking back to the past that he was trying desperately too forget. I also agree with Katie that Amir;s worst memory is of hassan getting raped while running a kite so this is a clear example of irony because a terrible haunting memory is bringing Amir joy

As almost every single person who has posted on this thread has said, Baba gathering dirt and putting it next to his hart is very clear foreshadowing that Baba will never return to his homeland.

The fact that Kamal's father commits suicide after Kamal dies is clear forshadowing for events that are going to transpier. I believe that the author is going to have either amir and hassan have children and they are going to have to sacrifice themselves or cope with the lose of one of the children.

I agree with Katie again that Kamal getting raped is clear irony because he was among the kids who raped Hassan. Its also ironic that Kamal goes silent just like Hassan goes silent and doesnt talk to amir "For a week, I barely saw Hassan" (80)

Lauren Hoh said...

It is ironic that Amir remembered flying kites with Hassan in the fume-filled tank, because his last scarring memory of Hassan was him being raped, and that is not a good memory. Although flying kites together was a big part of their lives, it is ironic that Amir would remember those times even after he was so horrible to Hassan.

I think Baba putting dirt next to his heart, from his homeland is foreshadowing. I agree very much with Katie and Michaela, that it is foreshadowing that Baba will not go back to his homeland, Afghanistan. The dirt reminds him, like Kelsey and Jeff said, about all he has accomplished and built, from nothing.

I think Kamal's father killing himself after Kamal dying is foreshadowing to another strong father/son bond where one of them dies and the other kills himself, but I am not sure who it will be whether it is Amir and Baba or Ali and Hassan.

It is definitely ironic that Kamal raped Hassan, and that he got raped himself. Hassan didn't sing anymore after he got raped, and after Kamal got raped, he didn't talk. Now Kamal knows what it feels like to be raped. I hope he feels badly for what he did now.

Brendon said...

It is ironic that Amir thinks of kites and hassan to make it through the fume filled tank. This is ironic because kites do not have the best memories in his mind. The most recent memory is the rape, which is not something that would help him. That day was a grim day for him, but his memories of it enable him to make it through hard times.

Baba taking dirt from the land is foreshadowing because it allows the reader to see that Baba will not be returning. The taking of the sand is Baba last way of staying home. He wants to being part of the land which gave him such a good life with him.

I believe that the suicide and death of Kamel and his son is foreshadowing for future deaths in the story. I believe that the relationship they had and the end they both recieved will be seen again. Whether it be between Hassan and Amir, or Amir and Baba, or Hassan and Baba, I believe there will be another scenario like this.

There is definitely irony in Kamels silence. The irony is is that the raper got raped. It was a taste of his own medicine if you will. After Hassan was raped, he was silent, but slowly regained his former self. Kamel on the other hand, was deeply scared, he was hunched over and his cheeks sagged. Karma's a bitch, and Kamel learned it the very hard way.

Daniel G said...

I think that pretty much everyone has said it all, and I agree with the many ironies. Most clearly is the irony of Amir trying to think of flying kites with Hassan as a way to get through the fumes and whatnot. This seems to be the memory that he leans to in times of trouble, although from what we saw him go through earlier with the raping of Hassan, we never would've guessed this to be the case. "I actually aspired to cowardice (77)." This is what Amir thought of his running away from Hassan as he was raped, and this is what was stuck in his mind with the idea of the two of them flying kites together, but I guess there were enough good memories so that this was still the happiest area of his life to look back upon.

I don't think there is another possible interpretation of the second bullet except what every other person has already said. This is clear foreshadowing that Baba will never return home, when he puts the dirt of his homeland next to his heart.

I think that Kamal's father killing himself after the death of Kamal is definitely some indirect foreshadowing, but not in the exact same way everyone has been saying. I think this is more of a general foreshadowing, and not specific to Baba and Amir. I think it is a general sign of people giving up hope in the war and giving up hope of surviving with eachother and their loved ones.

Finally, everyone else has said it, that it is ironic that Kamal hasn't spoken since he himself has been raped. The irony is that he was one of the rapists of Hassan, but I don't believe it is quite as ironic as some people are saying. As Assef was asking Wali and Kamal for assistance raping Hassan, "Kamal kept looking away (75)." It was clear that he wasn't whole-heartedly into the idea of this raping, and he clearly knew it was wrong. He was obviously pressured into it by Assef, but this, however, doesn't entirely change the fact that he did hold down Hassan as he was raped.

Burton said...

•In chapter 10 when he thinks about his friend Hassan it is at a time when he needs to think of a good thing which we read on page 122. "think of something good. something happy". This to me is foreshadowing because when Amir is told to think of happy things he thinks about Hassan telling us that later on in the book when ever he is in trouble we might see a flash back where Amir thinks about Hassan to get him threw something.

•This to is foreshadowing because we are getting the idea that Baba will never return to his home, and he is putting the dirt on his heart to show that it will always have a specil place in him.

• Just like the above this is also foreshadowing because i feel that Amir and Baba will either get close or push each other farther away from watching Kamal and his son die. Who knows maybe there is a small tie between these two father sons groups.

•It is very ironic that kamal gets raped because before i feel that he had no idea what he did to Hassan, and how Hassan felt after the rape. But now the tables have been turned and kamal gets raped this time.

I agree with daniel about how kamal killing himself shows how people are giving up on the war, and i also agree with how the war is a tough place and that is how the book is showing it.

Megan Pattison said...

I agree that it is ironic that Amir comforts himself by thinking of kite flying. Hassan and Amir were always a team when it came to flying kites. Memories of Hassan normally make Amir feel sick and nostalgic, but for some reason kite flying does not have the same effect. Amir has such horrible memories of the last day he and Hassan were ever friendly. Amir acknowledges irony in the events that happen in the book. He says, "...was ironic. Because that was the winter that Hassan stopped smiling." These ironies that Amir recognizes become apparent because Amir is now looking back on his childhood.

I agree with what others have said about Baba picking up the dirt of his homeland. I think this is a very symbolic moment in the book, and foreshadowing is definitely going on. I agree in anticipating that Baba will never return to his homeland again. Baba is being forced to leave, but somehow he subconsciously knows that this may be his last time ever being there.

I'm not sure about whether or not the suicide of Kamal's father was foreshadowing or ironic. I don't find it to be ironic, but I also don't see how it's foreshadowing. I think the general idea of family loyalty is a theme that is portrayed in several relationships throughout the story: Baba and Amir, Ali and Hassan, Hassan and Amir, Hassan and Baba, Amir and Rahim Khan. I suppose Kamal's father killing himself after Kamal dies is just another example of the value of family in the book and Afghanistan culture.

Along with what everyone else has said, I completely agree that it's ironic that Kamal was raped. I think Kamal raping Hassan had an enormous amount of psychological damage for Hassan, and that it wasn't even a thought for Kamal. Suddenly, though, when Kamal is raped he becomes the victim. By being subjected to such a horrible assault and being silenced by that gives Kamal a lot of time to think. I think it's ironic that the rape of Hassan was just a game for Kamal and Assef, but once Kamal's on the other side of the equation he cannot find the strength to overcome it.

I agree with what Jennie, and others, have said about Kamal and his fathers' relationship because foreshadowing for other father-son relationships to follow. I think she's right in that patterns of this fierce loyalty with play out during the rest of the book.

christopher.harwick said...

This is very ironic, because this memory is also filled with sadness. This is the same memory that cause Amir to plant the money and the watched. This cause his father great sadness and lead to getting rid of them. The memory is of Hassan getting raped by Assef which is a horrible memory. It is very odd that this memory that brought sadness is helping Amir get through a horrible car rid.

I agree with the majority of the class when I say that baba did this, because he thought he was never coming back to afghanistan. This is for shadowing. I think it was Babas final goodbye to the country that raised him, and he wanted something to remember it by.

I don't believe that Kamals father dieing is ironic to anything, so it could be foreshadowing to whats ahead. It could be Baba being very sad about leaving his country. or leaving ali and hassan, or something that amir will do.

Kamels not talking is very ironic. This is because he was one of hassans rapists, or helped in the rape. After he helped raping some one he then got raped, very ironic. Also it could be krama that had to do with him getting raped.

Mallory said...

• For the longest time Amir has felt ashamed and guilty whenever he thinks of flying kites but it's ironic because now when Amir goes to his "happy place" he thinks about those kites and Hassan again.
• Baba was a wealthy man in Kabul and well respected. But now that he has to leave all he gets to take with him is a little bit of dirt from where he lived. He had a lot and now he has almost nothing.
• Kamal's father kills himself after he's seen his own son die.
• Kamal was a big part of Hassan's rape and he was one of the mean boys but now he's been raped and realizes how bad it was. He now probably can't believe what he had helped Assef do to Hassan, it's bad karma